13:19:32 From raquel navarro (she/her) : great article tom! so thorough 13:20:24 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : https://nonprofitquarterly.org/a-new-business-model-emerges-meet-the-digital-news-co-op/ 13:20:47 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : It was great, Tom. No worries at all on our end! 13:22:05 From kate maxwell : same, I think it was a helpful news coop explained and I am glad you wrote it tom! 13:22:13 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : woo hoo shared services, alex! 13:22:24 From kate maxwell : Oops *explainer 13:26:38 From kate maxwell : That Boston idea sounds like an exciting variation on the Cleveland neighborhood news ppl that presented earlier 13:28:42 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : LOVED that line, Tom 13:28:50 From Faye L. (she/her) : Absolutely love that 13:29:11 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : And I love the "We have to be better than what came before" perspective too! 13:29:37 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : #CivicJuice 13:30:24 From raquel navarro (she/her) : ^^ same! definitely solidified journalism as a community-based public service and medium for uplifting other cooperative businesses <3 ! 13:32:01 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : guilt is a serious membership drive strategy for pub radio - increasingly newspaper subscription pitches too 13:33:56 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : It definitely helped 13:33:59 From Jason Tompkins : Real talk 13:37:15 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Whew, that iteration part is everything 13:40:18 From kate maxwell : Very important equity points thanks tom 13:41:02 From Louis McGill : That survey was really powerful, Carla! 13:42:38 From kate maxwell : yes thanks for your ongoing ongoing organizing Olivia! 13:45:28 From Rawan Yaghi : 👍🏽great questions especially the last one 13:46:34 From kate maxwell : +1 ^^^^ 13:47:02 From raquel navarro (she/her) : so fire -- getting into opportunities to "be better"!!! 13:47:30 From Rawan Yaghi : YES Carla +1 trust. I’d add around the world too 13:49:28 From Tess Townsend : I appreciate this dissection so much! Thank you, Carla, for your work, energy, and time with this. 13:50:11 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : +1 ^^^ 13:50:19 From kate maxwell : Yes, our local legacy papers did not lose trust with certain communities or on certain topics that they never had! Thanks for this convo 13:53:48 From raquel navarro (she/her) : tom I was surprised you didn't mention the cooperative conversion of the bayview national black newspaper in san francisco which happened earlier this year! great present example 13:53:50 From Nathan Schneider : sure 13:54:19 From Josh Wilson : I am late to this event, so sorry for not being entirely caught up w/ the convo. One thing I could contribute is that the public power of a news co-op is linked to the sort of community organizing that drives political campaigns, consumer movements, neighborhood movements, etc. Because journalism goes where the money is, organizing communities to invest in their own information resources inherently creates an information service that works in their interest. Community organizing is NOT like getting members or subscribers, the standard nonprofit and commercial model. It’s organizing, it’s political, it’s about building power. 13:54:48 From Nathan Schneider : The capacity for holding racism in co-ops is very, very real, well-attested by (for instance) the legacy of rural electrics and other established cooperatives. 13:55:49 From Josh Wilson : ^^^ Nathan, yes, I think this is a key matter in terms of organizing a community of support for a news co-op. There has to be some sort of standard around best practices and inclusivity that people are buying into when they support a co-op. Fine lines to walk. 13:56:15 From kate maxwell : As a starting point, we try to talk to our readers a lot about the ways they do not trust the local papers and start a conversation about how local news could better serve 13:56:34 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Amen, Josh 13:57:22 From Virginia Arrigucci : Power can be used for good or evil 13:57:38 From Nathan Schneider : As Fr. Albert McKnight said, for racial justice, "We need to reinvent the co-op" https://www.religionandjustice.org/interventions-forum-coops 13:58:50 From Josh Wilson : So what does that look like? How is power used for good? Is there some sort of certification or something that a co-op has to live up to in order to credibly present itself to communities? 13:59:25 From raquel navarro (she/her) : can we add that LA times example of acknowledgement of harm to our wiki? or any other great examples :-) 13:59:42 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : good idea raquel! 14:00:06 From kate maxwell : In a business with no profits…it may not be though 14:01:03 From Tess Townsend : I really appreciate this conversation and have enjoyed listening. Unfortunately I have to hop on a work call. Thank you so much Carla, Olivia, Tom et al. 14:01:10 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : thank you tess!! <3 14:01:55 From Louis McGill : I also have to jump to another commitment, but thank you Tom and Carla and everyone else for this conversation! 14:02:00 From Louis McGill : Y’all have a great weekend! 14:02:00 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Thank you Louis! 14:02:31 From raquel navarro (she/her) : if no one knows its ok but i'd love to talk numbers on benefits and child care for workers who are parents! 14:04:03 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : What Kate said. I'd say, for us at least, it *will* be, but I make less than any full-time staff right now so we can have more people and do more things. But that's not the answer long-term. Our workers are co-owners and there's an earmarked seat on our board to represent our voice. There's definitely work to do as that relationship grows, but the way we structured our bylaws is that profits go back into building the organization first. There's a threshold (and I don't know what it is, sorry) that triggers profit-sharing dividends to the membership, which includes our workers too. So, the goal is to take care of our people, both in pay and the infrastructure so we're not all always wearing 15 hats. And in time, the workers' assembly will operate like an in-house guild. 14:05:17 From Kevon Paynter : A co-op is a “for-profit.” Or it can be a “nonprofit.” Other than shared ownership, I’m a bit wary of failing to recognizing the financial necessity to make money and be sustainable as co-op. 14:05:34 From Jason Tompkins : In general, I know that there has been a push for foundations to make a commitment to grantmaking to for-profit black and brown led media orgs. Perhaps there could be a similar demand for cooperatively owned media outlets 14:06:24 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Good point Kevon 14:06:31 From paul bowman (he/him) : Need to get (more?) union people into this group 14:07:10 From Nathan Schneider : There is important emerging research from Rutgers for the wealth-building capacity of employee owned businesses, particularly in communities of color. 14:07:28 From Josh Wilson : Carl Hall from SF Mediaworkers Guild maybe 14:07:44 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Hope you will invite them, Josh! Agreed Paul 14:07:58 From Nathan Schneider : Among consumer co-ops, the situation varies, but many are pretty exemplary employers, particularly when it is blended with a union. 14:08:09 From Josh Wilson : Foundations can’t make grants to for-profits, but they can make “forgivable loans” … 14:08:58 From Jason Tompkins : @josh correct, or the foundation can serve as a fiscal sponsor of the grant that they award to a for-profit 14:09:04 From Kevon Paynter : Kate, may you share a link to that example “union-made journalism?” 14:09:09 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Ditto to everything Kate is saying 14:09:38 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Kevon I think that’s a LA Times slogan, I’m looking for it 14:10:15 From paul bowman (he/him) : I am a FSP-NWU member, but not a journalist. Yes, though — very interested in drawing this conversation and the ones I’m involved in there together. 14:10:58 From paul bowman (he/him) : (Freelance Solidarity Project - Natl Writers Union) 14:11:12 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Carla just hosted a call about a union organizing in newsrooms! 14:11:23 From Virginia Arrigucci : Is there anything different about healthcare when it comes to co-ops? Our system where healthcare is tied to employment is so limiting IMO 14:11:35 From Kevon Paynter : I’m seeing offering connection 14:11:46 From Josh Wilson : Piling on to Jason’s comment: Fiscal sponsorship is an incredibly powerful vehicle for bringing financial power to important work that’s happening outside the commercial sector. I founded a fiscal sponsor in SF that’s still going strong, and am glad to refer anyone to its director and also can talk about fiscal sponsorship at length, as needed. 14:12:17 From Kevon Paynter : I’m seeing offering connection as a big selling point why readers may want to join a media co-op 14:12:39 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : What was it about? 14:14:27 From kate maxwell : Fwiw, we have not asked anyone else to work for free, just the founders. we do not want a buy-in, because we don’t think people should have to have savings to invest, either in leisure time or funds. and we will have a staff union as well 14:14:41 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : My joke aside, I can't tell you how much easier it's been for us because of the work Tom and his folks have done. 14:16:28 From Kevon Paynter : Chris I agree, Tom has sown the seeds in a number of us media co-ops. He’s been an insightful, inspiring leader for Bloc By Block News and me, personally. 14:16:59 From kate maxwell : Definitely it is a whole other job to tell the story 14:17:40 From Tom Stites (he/his) : Thank you, Chris. Am I blushing? 14:17:52 From Virginia Arrigucci : A little :) 14:18:15 From kate maxwell : Yes replying on unpaid labor can replicate those inequities for sure 14:18:39 From raquel navarro (she/her) : THIS question!! 14:19:23 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : I like to tell people that in Ampled’s bylaws, it caps the maximum salary for the CEO - and members could change that number up or down 14:19:38 From kate maxwell : seconding chris and Kevon, your evangelizing has been v helpful tom! 14:19:51 From kate maxwell : I have worked at several orgs that are basically one pay grade across the board 14:21:34 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : that’s interesting… 14:22:53 From Virginia Arrigucci : Do you have the same tool for coverage? 14:22:54 From Rawan Yaghi : That’s cool 14:23:04 From Jason Tompkins : All the large foundations compensate many or most of their board members… resourcing board members should be taken more seriously and budgeted for 14:23:21 From kate maxwell : getting local info without ppls addresses is hard! 14:24:18 From kate maxwell : I really appreciate that the documenters program pays the documenters, in terms of including community members 14:24:40 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : We'd chip in on the development for software like that, Tom! 14:24:54 From kate maxwell : @joshwilson might know a tech person who could help? 14:25:02 From Rawan Yaghi : Yeah tracking to see what geo gaps you have is cool but it raises privacy concerns.. 14:25:32 From Josh Wilson : Anca Mosiou of Tech Liminal can make computers do ANYTHING and is very, very, very interested in co-ops. 14:25:41 From Virginia Arrigucci : Not if you collect first party data and don’t share it? 14:25:43 From kate maxwell : good point about privacy, in our county people are very wary of being tracked, have track phones, etc 14:25:48 From Kevon Paynter : On equitable data-sharing inside a co-op model check out Driver’s Seat Cooperative https://www.driversseat.co/ 14:26:30 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Chris has other ways of becoming a member of TDS… 14:26:33 From kate maxwell : Especially when you are asked for $250 at once! 14:27:09 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Volunteer hours, work exchanges, etc. 14:27:11 From raquel navarro (she/her) : whoa drivers seat is really interesting 14:27:41 From Kevon Paynter : Yeah, like many I’m also thinking about time banking and putting in sweat equity to replace the capital raise. 14:27:58 From kate maxwell : same kevon 14:28:50 From Tom Stites (he/his) : Kate — We 14:29:22 From Tom Stites (he/his) : I should have said that people didn’t need to pop all $250 at once, that they could pay it out monthly. 14:29:47 From kate maxwell : a portion of our community is home-bound/tech savy/fixed income older people, we want ways for to participate without taking on or insisting on volunteer management 14:30:35 From kate maxwell : Tom, thanks for clarifying, I was more thinking about when our local paper switched subscription pricing — they had a low initial sign-up, but charged people’s credit cards annually when they processed payments, and people freaked out 14:30:46 From raquel navarro (she/her) : i really want to understand more about this too 14:31:14 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : i put in $200 to my grocery co-op - i might get that much in dividends in five years 14:31:40 From kate maxwell : we have toyed with readers getting commissions if they connect us with local ad sales, which is a slightly different topic 14:31:45 From Virginia Arrigucci : Can people donate or purchase a share for someone else? 14:31:46 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Kevon, I'd *love* to talk about this more. Definitely trying to wrap my head around a way to do that, but I keep thinking it has to be possible because local news does make money. It's a matter of building the organization in a way that means it will. 14:32:10 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Virginia, not legally I don’t think you could because its a legal share - although you could do it informally 14:32:21 From Virginia Arrigucci : Thank you! 14:32:39 From Jason Tompkins : I’m not an expert but I’m interested in folks doing similar “fractionated shareholding” in the housing cooperative space: https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/real-estate-co-op-is-looking-for-investors-who-want-to-put-community-first 14:33:04 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : yes! EBPREC ftw! so innovative 14:33:12 From raquel navarro (she/her) : ^^!! 14:33:50 From raquel navarro (she/her) : their bylaws are super accessible and they do have a limited equity model could be similar to building dividends over time 14:33:51 From Kevon Paynter : Yes, Chris. That is one of the topics to dig deep into after a cold beer or several. 14:34:08 From kate maxwell : Yes Kevon, that’s super interesting! Would love to talk more about ways to build more member equity across the local economy as well 14:35:15 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : That "why would they invest in news if it sucks?" point with messaging is one we learned the hard way. When we make "co-op local news" the headline, we lose because what people think when they think "local news" is generally the opposite of what we do. We have to get more specific about who we are and what we offer. We've had a lot more success recruiting people with community building messages 14:35:37 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : that’s fascinating Chris - an important lesson 14:35:56 From Kevon Paynter : Yes, Chris - that is the work! 14:36:08 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Kate can talk about this, but in Mendo there’s a very clear pitch for why information is important - fires and power outages 14:36:10 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Kevon, I'm *way* on board for a boozy conversation about making the co-op model an engine of economic growth for its co-owners! 14:36:56 From kate maxwell : when we did a ‘what if you owned the news” workshop, people really wanted a place to exchange and list other volunteer opportunities 14:37:15 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : wow, neat 14:37:19 From Virginia Arrigucci : Not sure if these are good examples but from the subscription side, some events that spur subscription are: home ownership (all of a sudden concerned about property issues), parenthood (concern about schools), relocation (need to know what’s up), business intelligence, environmental issue, neighborhood development projects 14:37:19 From kate maxwell : And other interesting community needs we would not have immediately identified! 14:37:50 From Kevon Paynter : Haha, deal! Let’s do this the next time my Knicks play the Cavs. 14:38:23 From Faye L. (she/her) : I do have to hop out but this has been really interesting to listen to. Thank you for asking all of these great questions, Carla! 14:38:36 From Carla Murphy-Brooklyn-she/her : I 14:38:44 From Carla Murphy-Brooklyn-she/her : ‘m so sorry y’all, I wasn’t tracking the tie 14:38:46 From Carla Murphy-Brooklyn-she/her : time 14:38:54 From Josh Wilson : The degree to which people distrust journalism was driven home to me when I was starting a non-co-op news project, newsdaylighter.com, which is now on ice; I was promoting heavily through Facebook ads. I know that’s a weird little petri dish, but I targeted ads at people who were interested in the NYTimes, NPR, WSJ, The Guardian, stuff like that, and a significant portion of the “engagements” we got were people stating that journalists lie. Using that vocabulary. “Journalists lie.” So this issue of the brand being damaged is huge. 14:38:55 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : That was a blast! Thank y'all 14:39:05 From Kevon Paynter : One of those harsh realities quotes I’ve heard, “People buy 4 things and 4 things only. Ever. Those 4 things are time, money, sex, and approval/peace of mind. If you try selling something other than those 4 things you will fail.” 14:39:45 From Kevon Paynter : Co-ops as community approval / peace of mind 14:40:08 From kate maxwell : thanks so much Carla and tom, always wish we had more time to keep these conversations going 14:40:15 From raquel navarro (she/her) : Thanks so much all! 14:40:21 From Libby O'neall : Thank you! 14:40:34 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Thank you, Carla! Thank you, Tom! Thank you, Olivia! 14:40:35 From kate maxwell : I think news coops also are selling time and money, if you provide useful info that people dont need to seek out themselves 14:40:50 From Josh Wilson : Kevon, would love to get the quote source. Some real stuff! 14:41:00 From paul bowman (he/him) : Agreed, Olivia 14:41:16 From Josh Wilson : Thank you! Wonderful conversation, even showing up late. 14:41:52 From Kevon Paynter : Josh, the quote comes from an entrepreneur named Colin Dowling. 14:42:11 From Rawan Yaghi : This was really good. I learned about coops briefly in my program Social journalism (now engagement journalism) at the Craig Newmark graduate school of journalism but this was informative and engaging. Thank you Olivia, Carla, and Tom 14:42:23 From Josh Wilson : Thanks Kevon. Will check that out. 14:42:30 From Josh Wilson : (Him out) 14:43:32 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Rawan, that’s fabulous! Are you still in the program? 14:43:52 From Rawan Yaghi : I graduated last year 14:45:06 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : Congrats :) 14:45:32 From Kevon Paynter : Congrats, Rawan. I’m so impressed with the Social journalism program at the Craig Newmark. I often look to hire grads from there! 14:47:07 From kate maxwell : Outlier is amazing! I have to run to another zoom, but thanks for this question, participating in editorial as well as business decisions is an important piece of all this! Maybe one of our future convos can return to this idea of building equity in the broader community as well. Thanks so much everyone 14:47:09 From Rawan Yaghi : Thank you both! I’m so glad to hear that Kevon! I would love to work with you! 14:47:20 From Rawan Yaghi : And I’m sure so many of my classmates 14:47:25 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : thanks kate! 14:47:37 From kate maxwell : Oh man this is the question carla 14:48:08 From Rawan Yaghi : This is engagement <3 14:49:15 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : One reason we moved to the co-op structure is that even when I was the sole owner of The Devil Strip, we were so reliant on community members creating our journalism that they essentially had co-created the publication itself. Since our beginning six years ago, we've published work by 250+ Akronites, the vast majority of whom had no prior journalism experience or training. Now, we have three full-time reporters and one editor-in-chief, but only one reporter went to j-school, and the other two came up with us. That's why we still work with, train and pay community contributors for most of what we publish 14:50:06 From kate maxwell : Iim happy to share all of our co-op materials with anyone, about how we talk about this with our readers 14:50:08 From kate maxwell : YES KEVON 14:50:19 From kate maxwell : the coop of news coops 14:50:52 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : or has bad associations with that word... 14:52:52 From Kevon Paynter : Yes, Carla. 14:52:53 From Rawan Yaghi : Yes, information needs. 14:52:54 From kate maxwell : we talk about wildfires and certain kinds of news product utility, but we are also positioned its the county-wide locally owned news source, which is somewhat unique and helps with this sense of connection 14:53:06 From Rawan Yaghi : Journalism as a service rather than a product 14:53:23 From Tom Stites (he/his) : Maybe organizing and marketing messaging for co-op memberships should be a topic for a future study group Zoom. 14:53:34 From kate maxwell : Or a utility, la times just started a “utility journalism” news team 14:53:40 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : that’s a good idea tom 14:53:44 From Olivia Marie Quinlan Henry : WOW kate really? 14:53:48 From Jason Tompkins : Taking off but thanks so much for another crucial convo!!! 14:54:30 From kate maxwell : yeah, I have not seen anyone else use that phrase before but I think it is similar to what we think of as explainers/service journalism/etc they are hiring now 14:55:08 From Chris Horne (The Devil Strip) : Kevon, you make me want to get on my soapbox! As an industry, we've ignored our lost social currency because we've focused on our lost revenue. But there's an epidemic of chronic loneliness, which is, I think, was the foundation for the wild spread of misinformation, disinformation, polarization, etc. So not only can we make our value proposition being in community with your neighbors but actually achieving it could remedy other big picture problems for journalism and the country 14:56:39 From Kevon Paynter : Kate sharing that resource is appreciated! What will you need from us to share? 14:58:07 From kate maxwell : I want to continue this conversation! I have another zoom at 3. But agree with chris, it might not be marketing for us but other things 14:58:41 From kate maxwell : kevon, I will try to email you? maybe we need a slack or a way to continue these conversations but I done want to email spam the whole list 14:58:43 From kate maxwell : Yes chris 14:59:16 From Carla Murphy-Brooklyn-she/her : I think Tiny News is tackling this one-stop-suite thing 14:59:32 From kate maxwell : Keep me in the loop on this! 15:00:04 From kate maxwell : waiting for TNC to let us in 15:00:15 From Kevon Paynter : kevon@blocbyblocknews.com 15:00:21 From Kevon Paynter : Thanks all!